Comments on: An open letter to the D&D players community http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/ Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:42:12 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Grego http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Grego Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:26:13 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-28 I would have to agree Players need to stop reading adventures and stop reading Monster Manuals as well. I know that players will complain that Monster Manuals have templates and other useful info for players to use. Well Im hear to say they have Two players handbooks, the spell compendieum, six complete books, Psionics books (if your DM allows them), tome of magic and battle. These are just some and not all books that just the Wizards company has published geared mainly for players. As players you have many opptions and if for instance you want to play a half-dragon or some other template. It should be something a players comes up with as an idea for playing an interesting character not another way to metagame. I would have to agree Players need to stop reading adventures and stop reading Monster Manuals as well. I know that players will complain that Monster Manuals have templates and other useful info for players to use. Well Im hear to say they have Two players handbooks, the spell compendieum, six complete books, Psionics books (if your DM allows them), tome of magic and battle. These are just some and not all books that just the Wizards company has published geared mainly for players. As players you have many opptions and if for instance you want to play a half-dragon or some other template. It should be something a players comes up with as an idea for playing an interesting character not another way to metagame.

]]> By: Grego http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Grego Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:11:04 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-27 Hey Nathan I would have to agree with shekak67 A player can say they will be able to seperate character knowledge from player knowledge when in an adventure they already read. However I am the only person I know who actually has died performing actions in character knowing that it would probably lead to my death. Second any player who givin the above situation who willingly alows their character to die either: 1- Didn't remember the entire adventure and will be beating themselves up when it happens. 2- Never really get attached to a character and think nothing of creating another. (Roll-players) 3- Are actually great role-players. Hey Nathan I would have to agree with shekak67 A player can say they will be able to seperate character knowledge from player knowledge when in an adventure they already read. However I am the only person I know who actually has died performing actions in character knowing that it would probably lead to my death.
Second any player who givin the above situation who willingly alows their character to die either:
1- Didn’t remember the entire adventure and will be beating themselves up when it happens.
2- Never really get attached to a character and think nothing of creating another. (Roll-players)
3- Are actually great role-players.

]]> By: mrboffo http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-26 mrboffo Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:33:42 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-26 There's been a good bit of discussion on this one over at the Wizards boards: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=813410 Feel free to comment there as well or instead! There’s been a good bit of discussion on this one over at the Wizards boards:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=813410

Feel free to comment there as well or instead!

]]> By: shekak67 http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-25 shekak67 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:20:07 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-25 Hey Nathan, ..welcome as well...I periodically check this goofy site and respond and since I game with Mr. BOffo....I am biased ,but I have always found it irritating when players buy modules as well...but if they GM then that cannot be helped....hell, even if they don't GM it is a free country...having said that, I do believe that it is much easier to have your pc react/act honestly if you don't know what's coming up .....and if you plan on playing for at least a long while(before gming again) you should either stay away from reading modules for a bit or at least try to keep your current GM up to date that you stay on top of those things and he might want to either adjust for that or be aware of your knowledge. YOu can talk all day about how you will role-play your pc and not meta-game the adventure ,but it is much harder to do...I've seen all sorts of RP rationalizations for why a pc does or does not do something....and if you know , for example, the Green Devil's Mouth Portal is instant death then you will in all likelihood avoid it.... as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.... but in the end if you are the GM and are ok with it, then fine. Hey Nathan,
..welcome as well…I periodically check this goofy site and respond and since I game with Mr. BOffo….I am biased ,but I have always found it irritating when players buy modules as well…but if they GM then that cannot be helped….hell, even if they don’t GM it is a free country…having said that, I do believe that it is much easier to have your pc react/act honestly if you don’t know what’s coming up …..and if you plan on playing for at least a long while(before gming again) you should either stay away from reading modules for a bit or at least try to keep your current GM up to date that you stay on top of those things and he might want to either adjust for that or be aware of your knowledge.
YOu can talk all day about how you will role-play your pc and not meta-game the adventure ,but it is much harder to do…I’ve seen all sorts of RP rationalizations for why a pc does or does not do something….and if you know , for example, the Green Devil’s Mouth Portal is instant death then you will in all likelihood avoid it….
as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions….
but in the end if you are the GM and are ok with it, then fine.

]]> By: mrboffo http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-24 mrboffo Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:44:00 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-24 Wow! Look, Nathan, here's the thing. First, thanks for coming to the blog, and for the post. I am glad to hear your thoughts. I can tell you've got strong feelings about this. Second, you've got to understand that I'm all about the democratization of the game. Really, I am. I'm not saying I long for "secret knowledge," except that I want to give my players a good game, that is both challenging and surprising at times. I can't do that if they know what is coming next. When I am playing (on those rare occasions that one of my players does agree to run a game) I know that I personally want to play something I've not read before. It is more fun for me if I don't know what is coming next. It's no more complex than that. Finally, I know that not every player meta-games. However, by their own admission, several of my players do. It's not about me beating them; it's about all of us being interested in the game, together. I joke with my guys all day long about how it's "Us vs. Them" (i.e. DM vs. Players), and I do a little sarcastic happy dance whenever there's a total party kill. But I've been gaming with most of these guys for a decade or more, and they know I'm really on their side. Don't presume to know my desires; at the end of the day, my only desire is, really, to sit down and have a good time alongside, not at the expense of, my friends. Hope this clears it up a bit, and thanks again for visiting! Wow!

Look, Nathan, here’s the thing.

First, thanks for coming to the blog, and for the post. I am glad to hear your thoughts. I can tell you’ve got strong feelings about this.

Second, you’ve got to understand that I’m all about the democratization of the game. Really, I am. I’m not saying I long for “secret knowledge,” except that I want to give my players a good game, that is both challenging and surprising at times. I can’t do that if they know what is coming next.

When I am playing (on those rare occasions that one of my players does agree to run a game) I know that I personally want to play something I’ve not read before. It is more fun for me if I don’t know what is coming next. It’s no more complex than that.

Finally, I know that not every player meta-games. However, by their own admission, several of my players do. It’s not about me beating them; it’s about all of us being interested in the game, together. I joke with my guys all day long about how it’s “Us vs. Them” (i.e. DM vs. Players), and I do a little sarcastic happy dance whenever there’s a total party kill. But I’ve been gaming with most of these guys for a decade or more, and they know I’m really on their side.

Don’t presume to know my desires; at the end of the day, my only desire is, really, to sit down and have a good time alongside, not at the expense of, my friends.

Hope this clears it up a bit, and thanks again for visiting!

]]> By: Nathan http://rpgdigest.com/2007/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-dd-players-community/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Nathan Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:00:41 +0000 http://dndreviews.com/?p=45#comment-23 This is a rather bizarre mindset. First off, you're assuming that every single player meta-games. Secondly, you're attitude simply reeks of "It's the DM versus the player" thought process. And thirdly, you're completely leaving out people like me; people who both DM and play on a regular basis. I've ran published adventures before. I like them, they save time. Invariably, someone's read it before or purchased it, or the adventure is included in a player's guide (Example: The adventure at the back of the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook). But guess what? My players are playing a character. They can adopt a role, and their character acts as though the player never read that information. It really is that simple. What disgusts me most is your outdated "DM versus players" attitude. You treat the players like enemies, who are not privileged to your secret knowledge. Does this make you feel superior? Allow me to re-assure you, you are not. Most of the worst DMs share that attitude, and I suspect it stems from a desire to feel superor over others. The game, I am afraid, is no longer about stuffing one's ego. It's about having fun. This is a rather bizarre mindset. First off, you’re assuming that every single player meta-games. Secondly, you’re attitude simply reeks of “It’s the DM versus the player” thought process. And thirdly, you’re completely leaving out people like me; people who both DM and play on a regular basis.

I’ve ran published adventures before. I like them, they save time. Invariably, someone’s read it before or purchased it, or the adventure is included in a player’s guide (Example: The adventure at the back of the Eberron Campaign Sourcebook). But guess what? My players are playing a character. They can adopt a role, and their character acts as though the player never read that information. It really is that simple.

What disgusts me most is your outdated “DM versus players” attitude. You treat the players like enemies, who are not privileged to your secret knowledge. Does this make you feel superior? Allow me to re-assure you, you are not. Most of the worst DMs share that attitude, and I suspect it stems from a desire to feel superor over others. The game, I am afraid, is no longer about stuffing one’s ego. It’s about having fun.

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